STARS OF EGYPTOLOGY

Dubbed the most controversial Egyptologist in the world, David Rohl gives an exclusive interview. Proving the Bible to have its foundations in historical fact, he is famous for a string of books, lectures and films on the subject. Join the master chronologist as he gives a once-in-a-lifetime interview.

Most Egyptologists have a moment when they fall in love with ancient Egypt. When (if at all) did this happen for you?

Back in the 1990s we were moving house when I came across an exercise book in an old tea-chest stashed away in the loft. The writing seemed to be that of a seven-year-old. The contents consisted of a list of pharaohs from the 1st Dynasty through to the Ptolemies laid out in three columns – hieroglyphs (a bit crude to say the least!), their modern names, and the dates of their reigns. I know, that sounds ridiculous … but, then, I was a weird child. I have no idea what sparked my fascination with ancient Egypt. Maybe a primary school art project? Maybe the fact that my first book was a hardback copy of Christiane Desroches-Noblecourt’s Tutankhamun: Life and Death of a Pharaoh. I still have it! I do remember constructing a model (made out of balsawood and papier-maché) of the Sahure pyramid, complete with causeway and valley temple! No toy castles or model aeroplanes for me! I guess that must have been after my first visit to Egypt when I was nine years old.

Apparently, according to my elder siblings, I insisted on my mum taking me there. It was not long after the Suez Crisis, so there were virtually no tourists in Egypt and, at that time, there were less than half a dozen paddle-steamers on the Nile. We travelled upstream from Cairo to Abu Simbel (through the locks of the British dam at Aswan) in King Farouk’s private vessel the ‘Khased Kheir’, me sleeping in the king’s bed (no, he wasn’t there at the time as he had been exiled to Italy!). That was a different era. I remember being served/entertained by noble Nubian staff wearing lapis lazuli coloured galabeyas, with golden waistbands and wearing magnificent turbans.

The royal paddle-steamer pulled into the beach in front of the great Abu Simbel temple (before it was moved) in the dead of night … and the next morning, just before dawn, I was escorted down the gang plank, handed a great brass key in the shape of an ankh, and sent to open the huge doors that closed off the inner sanctum of Ramesses II’s speos-temple. Just try to picture this nine-year-old, walking through the columned hall of Osirid statues, the sun rising above the desert mountains across the river lighting the way, and the long shadow of that little kid pointing to Ramesses and his fellow gods waiting for him in the holy of holies. I defy anyone not to be infatuated with the Land of the Pharaohs after an experience like that! It couldn’t happen today.

How did you become an Egyptologist?

Well, that’s hard to say. What is an Egyptologist? Is it someone who studies ancient Egypt in all its weird and wonderful facets? In which case, around seven! If you mean formally studying the subject at university, then 1987. That was when I was accepted as a ‘mature’ student for the BA course in Egyptology and Ancient History at University College London. I must have impressed the interview panel with all my past history (having been nominated by Professor Fairman of Liverpool University to become the youngest member of the Egypt Exploration Society at the age of twelve) because I was one of only three students accepted for the course out of 107 applications that year. During my three years as an undergraduate, I completed courses in Egyptian Language, Egyptian Environmental Studies, Egyptian Archaeology, Ancient History from 3000 to 1500 BC, Ancient History from 1500 to 330 BC, Levantine Archaeology, the History of Ancient Greece, and Theoretical Archaeology. I also voluntarily joined Professor Nicholas Coldstream’s famous post-grad seminar series on Mycenaean and Minoan Archaeology at the Institute of Archaeology, London. I then went on to complete my Masters degree, before continuing PhD research into the chronology of the Egyptian Third Intermediate Period. That was funded by the prestigious W. F. Masom History Research Scholarship from the University of London. All the while, during the post grad phase, I was also a assistant tutor for Amelie Kuhrt’s Ancient History courses in the UCL History Department.

What has been your contribution to Egyptology?

I regard myself more of an inter-disciplinarian of the ancient world than purely an Egyptologist. Egyptology itself is a multi-disciplinary academic subject … what with linguists, mummy specialists, conservators, archivists, archaeologists, historians … and chronologists. My interests lie in the last three on that list. So, to answer your question, I specialise in ancient chronology, especially as it pertains to the relationship between Egypt and the Bible, though I also research the timelines of the Levantine, Anatolian, and Greco-Roman worlds.

I also led several epigraphic missions into Egypt’s Eastern Desert to record predynastic rock art, under the umbrella of the Eastern Desert Survey. While at UCL, I joined Peter Parr’s excavation team at Kadesh-on-the Orontes (Tell Nebi Mend) and was responsible for the Late Bronze Age levels, looking down on the fields where the famous Battle of Kadesh was fought out between the forces of Ramesses II and the Hittite Emperor, Muwatalli. But there is one other thing that I am perhaps most proud of … that is writing books and presenting a series of TV documentaries on Egypt and the ancient world that (I have come to realise over the years) inspired many young students to become today’s new generation of Egyptologists and historians.

How did you become interested in the chronology of the ancient world?

Back in the 1970s I came across a little blue book on the Egyptology shelves at Foyles book shop on Charing Cross Road. The author was Professor Kenneth Kitchen and the book was entitled The Third Intermediate Period in Egypt. I spent several years studying the contents from cover to cover (now thoroughly worn into ‘rags and tatters’). This, of course, was long before my student years at UCL. Kitchen’s book was a godsend to all those of us interested in chronology, because it brought together all the data for what is perhaps Egypt’s most under-researched and confusing era. In fact, the 21st to 25th Dynasties are hardly covered in Egyptology and ancient history BA courses. But it absolutely fascinated me!

I love solving problems, delving into and trying to resolve anomalies and puzzles. And boy were there plenty of them in the TIP! Kitchen (the high priest of Egyptian chronology for the last forty years) gave us the ‘conventional’ timeline of ancient Egypt that we use today (and by interconnections, the timelines of many ancient world civilisations) … but he also provided a whole bunch of young researchers all the tools we deeded to re-examine his chronology of the TIP – which was found wanting in several critical areas. That’s how it began for me … and how I became the ‘maverick’ of conventional Egyptology and historical studies.

Publication of A Test of Time opened up some doors to you. Could you explain a bit about what happened?

I am used to reading comments by various anti-Rohl critics that I never finished my PhD and that I should not be taken seriously because the thesis was abandoned. Here is the truth of it. During my time at UCL preparing the thesis on the TIP I was invited by the Egypt Exploration Society to give a public lecture on my research in one of the university’s main lecture theatres. At the end of the presentation I was approached by a literary agent who asked if I was interested in having my work brought to the wider public. He said that he would be keen to represent me. The next week I went to his offices in Baker Street to sign a contract. Within a month the agent had nine book publishing offers and a meeting with Channel Four (one of the four main terrestrial TV broadcasters in the UK). A month later the TV producer appointed by the Channel Four Commissioning Editor was flying me over to Bethesda (near Washington) to meet the Chief Executive of Discovery Channel. Things were obviously moving very fast. Random House won the auction to sign me up for the book (A Test of Time) and Channel Four/Discovery agreed a joint production of a three-part TV series (‘Pharaohs and Kings’) with me as presenter.

Book writing and filming took 18 months … then the shit hit the fan. The first episode of the series aired on a Sunday night in September 1995. The book was released the following Monday and had sold out by Wednesday – 100,000 copies. That was just in the UK. The publisher had greatly underestimated the interest from the general public and had no supplies of books ready for episodes two and three (having to order a new print-run in Italy). As a result, I didn’t quite make number one in the Sunday Times best-seller lists but sat at number two for eight weeks. I was adopted by the Sunday Times as their very own ‘Indiana Jones’, appearing twice on the front cover of the Sunday Times Colour Supplement.

Now all this inevitably raised major issues with the university and, as a result, I was asked to go see Professor John North, head of the History Department. He was surprisingly very understanding, appreciating that my income as an assistant tutor bore no comparison to the five-figure publishing advance and TV appearance fees I had received. I had a wife, two cats and a mortgage to support! As a result, John proposed that I take a sabbatical from the PhD until everything calmed down. It never did! I was subsequently offered a double book contract (Legend and The Lords of Avaris) worth a lot of money and another TV documentary (‘In Search of Eden’). As a result, I never returned to complete the PhD.

There were good reasons not to do so. University College London have rules about PhD theses: no more than 10% of the contents must have been published prior to submission. I had had my PhD research splashed all over the world in books and on TV. As a result, if I were to have continued the PhD, I would have had to begin again from scratch with an entirely different subject! Needless to say, with my ongoing book-writing and TV work, I simply couldn’t contemplate that.

So, there you have it. Was I right to do what I did? I often wonder what would have happened if I had abandoned all that outreach to popular culture and stuck with UCL, waiting for Amelie Kuhrt to retire in the hope of been offered the vacancy? In spite of the fact that I love teaching, I think I made the right decision … after all, I have a worldwide student body to inform and educate … whether the Rohl critics like it or not.   

My understanding is that you have two careers, one in music and the other in Egyptology. Can you explain how you came to be both a popular musician and successful Egyptologist?

Yes, I formed my first band at the age of fifteen and that led to twenty years of performing on stage, becoming a recording engineer, recording artist, and record producer (working for George Martin’s elite Producers Group). In that time, I engineer/produced many well-known British artists, receiving double platinum albums from the music industry and two British Academy Awards for writing and recording the music for animation films.

By the time I was thirty-five I was pretty much blown out (smoking too much and suffering from hearing loss). So, I gave up smoking and retired from the music industry, using the royalty earnings to support my years as a mature student at UCL. I still compose music for film and TV, recording in my own private studio here in Spain. We also have a rather select vocal group that I record the backing tracks for, which means I still get to sing in public. So, what with writing books, appearing in TV documentaries, lecturing here in Spain and elsewhere, as well as on cruise ships, writing and recording music, and singing, I have kept myself pretty busy! 

Could you tell me a bit about the Institute for the Study of Interdisciplinary Sciences? What is it? How did you become involved? What was your role?

I was initially Director of the Institute (ISIS), which was set up in the 1980s as a vehicle for interdisciplinary research into ancient chronology. Given that I had been working on chronology since the 1970s, I suppose I was the natural choice to run this educational charity. I then became its President before stepping down because of my book-writing and TV commitments.

What is the Journal of the Ancient Chronology Forum? Could you explain a bit about your role in this publication?

The JACF was the journal of ISIS, and I was also its editor for a decade or so. We managed to get some great contributions from the worlds of academe, archaeology and Egyptology, which became seminal papers in the revised chronology movement. JACF was effectively the forerunner of the SCIEM project run by Manfred Bietak (Synchronization of Civilizations in the Eastern Mediterranean), which has much greater resources than I ever had (having support from UNESCO). But JACF was the first journal to focus primarily on chronological research (perhaps with the exception of the Journal of the Society for Interdisciplinary Studies, which concentrated on the work of Immanuel Velikovsky). 

You are an Egyptologist who has broken new ground and is considered ”controversial”. My view is a lot of people read your work because they have questions nobody is really addressing. What are your thoughts on this?

This interview already has quite a lot of info for readers to take on board, so perhaps I should just say I agree with you! I may not be the best Egyptologist (by a long way) but I am a pretty good communicator who loves to explore new ideas. It gets me into trouble quite a lot within conservative academia … but being a bit of a maverick is a badge that I continue to wear with a friendly smile on my face and, hopefully, some vestige of dignity.

How did you become involved in the Patterns of Evidence series?

As you can imagine, I regularly get asked to do interviews for different TV productions. Back in 2002 (I think it was), I got a call from a Director based in Minneapolis called Tim Mahoney. He wanted to fly over to the UK (I was living in Tunbridge Wells at the time) to do an interview about the New Chronology. We spent the whole day discussing on camera how the revised Egyptian timeline revealed a new understanding of biblical history and archaeology. Now, I should point out that I am not a religious person … I just find the narratives of the Old Testament intriguing and another of those great puzzles in human history to solve. It boils down to the question: why is it that archaeology fails to confirm the traditional history of the Bible? Or, to put another way, is the Bible myth or history? The New Chronology provides the answer to those questions.

Anyway, I have been working with Tim ever since that first interview, filming in Egypt, Israel, Jordan, and the USA, for his documentary movie series Patterns of Evidence, which has won a plethora of awards and has been seen by millions in America and around the world. A lot of the material is based on my work … but that is not to say that the films are ‘promos’ for the New Chronology. Tim is entirely his own man and I have no ‘Machiavellian’ say in either the content or editorial policy.  

What is your next project? Book? Film?

I am currently writing the second book in a new three-part series (the first being Exodus – Myth or History?), detailing the New Chronology for both Egyptian and traditional biblical history, including Syro-Palestine archaeology and stratigraphy. Unfortunately, it takes me several years to complete each volume because, though I am officially retired, I have so many other ‘distractions’ which seem to be taking up most of my time! I guess my TV and film work has come to an end now with the baton passed on to younger, more TV-genic presenters, such as my favourite Egyptologist of the moment – Chris Naunton (justifiably famed for his elegant pink long-johns!).

Thank you, David. Knowing how busy you are, it’s been terrific having you open up for this interview. There is also another wonderful podcast which I am sure the readers will really appreciate https://conta.cc/2V3V411. For some links to David’s work have a look below. And many thanks to what is truly a rock star Egyptologist!

Here is one of the lectures given by David Rohl for Patterns of Evidence. He starts about 27 minutes in! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4C618MkFej8&t=99s.

Check it out on Amazon at: https://www.amazon.com/Exodus-Myth-History-David-Rohl/dp/0986431028/

The latest from David Rohl.

Download all three for Xmas! http://rb.gy/nne1fe

You can pick up this incredible book from Amazon at https://www.amazon.com/Eden-Exile-Five-Thousand-Year-History-People/dp/1882514580/

A classic book loved by scholars and laypersons alike – and even atheists and people of faith. You can purchase a copy on Amazon today. https://www.amazon.com/Pharaohs-Kings-Biblical-David-Rohl/dp/0517703157/

Master musician, David Rohl (left).